Multiple album/track artists

[Yiannis]

Hi.

I purchased this software about a year ago to catalog both my CD & digital album collection (approx. 7,000 albums, most of them jazz). I admit that the software is excellent, much better than anything I could build myself in Access.

However, it has one MAJOR FLAW which led me to abandon using OrangeCD as a cataloging tool, in spite of its other excellent features. This is the the lack of multi-value fields. This is particularly nagging especially as far as it concerns artists, since a good part of my collection are joint albums by two or more artists (e.g. Bill Evans & Jim Hall) which would need to be associated with BOTH artists and appear on a listing of albums under EACH artist. The same goes for artist tracks (and would also apply to multi-genres etc).

FYI, I use Foobar to handle my digital files (most of them FLAC and properly tagged) on the computer and Squeezebox to play them on my stereo -- both of them recognize and handle multivalue tag fields using preset delimiters (such as ";" or "/" etc.)

I recall reading in this forum quite some time ago that this issue would have be met in a new release. Very recently, I downloaded the latest release, but couldn't find any trace of implementation of this crucial update. I also checked the message boards, and again couldn't find any update on this issue - seems that this is still not implemented.

I would really appreciate some update on this. Maybe it's already there and I'm dumb enough to not find it.

Other than this, the software is a great tool.

Thanks for the assistance,

Yiannis

[cmaz]

i would like to echo Yiannis' question/suggestion.

i am trying out various catologing options. i have Music Collector, but it really doesn't fit my needs, as what i am mainly concerned with is catolging digital files (yes, i know they make mp3collector, but i don't want a separate program for digital files and "normal" formats).

i've been trying out two options, OrangeCD and CaTraxx.

i really like how OCD will automatically pick up the Notes files in my album folders, and it seems like this is the program i am leaning towards.

But, i have just come up against the drawback mentioned by Yiannis above. The program really needs the ability to assign multiple values in the artist field.

Any chance this will be implemented in the future?

Thanks!

[stephanos]

I just wanted to reawaken this topic in light of the significant improvement just made to the program (though I've yet to try it) of setting up a 'copy credts' capability. Thus far, in spite of my high regard for the program, it's inabilty to manage co-leader albums (e.g., Clifford Brown/Max Roach) has been a major obstacle to my making full use of it. In fact, I would go further, and wish for the same capability in the Composer field, so that one could separate say, Lennon and McCartney (neither one being clearly the lyricist).

Having invested a lot of time over the years cataloging my collection in various formats, I've gotten a little persnickety as far as putting in more work than I'd like into a hobby. I fear that if I do proceed with hyphenations, etc., some future program change would force me to go back and do it all over. After various changes (hard drive failures, program changes, etc.), I don't think I could start over again.

I did try another program, Music Collector, for a few years, but that had major flaws, particularly in how it handled credits, potentially bogging one down for hours in making minor alterations to a single disc. Orange CD is vastly superior in every way, except for this issue with the multiple artist limitation. I believe last year, in another thread, some assurance was given by our esteemed developers that this feature might be forthcoming soon. Given that som much progress has been made in other areas, what is the prognosis on this issue?

[andrei_c]

Multiple artists ("collaborations") feature is almost ready. At first, it will be available for albums only. Later, I plan to include support for multiple artists per track.

Any brave souls out there are welcome to try the new feature in this special build.

http://www.firetongue.com/support/orgcdfull_13331.exe

You can define multiple artists per album by clicking right arrow button next to artist box and selecting "Collaboration". It's next to Various Artists function.

Make sure to backup your database before installing this build in case something unexpected happens.

Andrei

[Jazz_North]

This seems to work great. I appreciate it Andrei.

There is one small problem that isn't urgent. After using the collaboration feature, the cds with collaboration get alphabetised separately from those without. Here's just one example:

Chet Baker and Lee Konitz, In Concert.

In Concert appears under Chet Baker as the last item in the list of cds (this is in view by artist) and not in the middle of the list where it should be.

I know, all this work and the customers still complain.

[davidagbr]

Great to see that this has now been implemented.

I agree with Jazz_North, it looks as though the only problem is the sorting under view by artist. Once this has been fixed, it'll be a great improvement!

Just to let you know that I've been playing with the new build for a while, and so far haven't found any side-effects!

Thanks for the work Andrei,

David

[davidagbr]

I've also noticed that if the collaborative artist is first, the sorting will also be numerical.

For example: I have a record credited to 4 Motion vs 12" Thumpers. I've just split the artist using the new collaboration function. The record is now sorted numericaly by the first artist (in this case 4 Motion). I've tried it with a few different numbers, and anything before 12, is now sorted before 12" thumpers, any number after 12 is sorted after 12" thumpers.

There is also an additional sort depending on the position of the sort artist (again sorted alphanumericaly).

Does this make sense??

David

[Joebugs]

Andrei,

I've been testing this great new feature and I would like to point out two problems I've encountered.

1. When I view the album overview the artist's name contains also the collabations. For example:
Main Artist: Linda Ronstadt & Ann Savoy
Collaborations: Linda Ronstadt; Ann Savoy; The Zozo Sisters.
This is shown as Linda Ronstadt & Anna Savoy & Linda Ronstadt & Ann Savoy & The Zozo Sisters.

I don't know about other users but I would prefer that the main artist show Linda Ronstadt & Ann Savoy. Preferably the collaborations are shown separatly.

2. When I clicked on Tracks View to view album tracks; the tracks are not visible for artists with collaboration.

Can you look into these please.

Thanks

Joe

[Jazz_North]

I don't think I have first problem (I'm not even sure I understand what it is), but I do have the second one.

[quote=Joebugs]Andrei,

I've been testing this great new feature and I would like to point out two problems I've encountered.

[VendenBos]

When entering the collaboration artists, it is not possible to set the sort name of the artist. Existing artists are recognized and the existing sort name is used, but new artists are sort on their full name and I have to change it in the artist view.

The rest of the new album collaborations functionality is working good for me.

[Joebugs]

I don't think I have first problem (I'm not even sure I understand what it is), but I do have the second one.



Hi,

When I view the album in the Album Overview page the artist's name is also including the collaborators.

And it can get very complicated eg:

Crosby Stills Nash & Young and David Crosby and Stephen Stills and Graham Nash and Neil Young and Crosby Stills & Nash and Crosby & Nash.

It does not make sense. Only the artist's name should be included in the Album Overview.

Joe

[Jazz_North]

I'm not trying to be obtuse, but I don't know what you mean by "album overview page". I've tried all the views I know about and don't get this problem.

[quote=Joebugs]

Hi,

When I view the album in the Album Overview page the artist's name is also including the collaborators.

And it can get very complicated eg:

Crosby Stills Nash & Young and David Crosby and Stephen Stills and Graham Nash and Neil Young and Crosby Stills & Nash and Crosby & Nash.

It does not make sense.

[Joebugs]

I'm not trying to be obtuse, but I don't know what you mean by "album overview page". I've tried all the views I know about and don't get this problem.


Hi,

In fact if you go in any view including the Record Properties you get the name of the artst as Artist + Collaborators.

I can send you a screenshot if you send me your email.

Mine is joebugs@onvol.net

Joe

[Joebugs]

Hi

I have now realised that I was trying to get something that this feature was not intended for.

I was trying to see albums for ex; by "Crosby Stills Nash & Young" also listed in the album pages by "David Crosby", "Stephen Stills" etc.

It appears that this feature splits up two or more combined main artists into separate individual main artists. An album say "Riding with the King" by BB King & Eric Clapton is now listed under BB King and Eric Clapton separately; however it is no longer listed under BB King & Eric Clapton. The main artist "BB King & Eric Clapton" disappear from the lists of artists.

Ideally the album should be listed in "BB King & Eric Clapton", "BB King" & "Eric Clapton"

Joe

[andrei_c]

When entering the collaboration artists, it is not possible to set the sort name of the artist. Existing artists are recognized and the existing sort name is used, but new artists are sort on their full name and I have to change it in the artist view.
Additional controls for setting sort names will be added eventually. I ran into problems implementing it - hopefully it is not a deal breaker.

You can always add sort names via menu Library -> Manage Artists.

Andrei

[Jazz_North]

Additional controls for setting sort names will be added eventually. I ran into problems implementing it - hopefully it is not a deal breaker.

You can always add sort names via menu Library -> Manage Artists.

Andrei


I didn't understand the complaint in the first place. Everytime I add a new artist, whether through the collaboration feature or simply because it is someone I had never entered before, I have to specify the sort name. If you are going to make it easier to do that, that is great, but it has nothing to do with collaboration (which is great).

[Jazz_North]

I have found another display issue as I work with the very useful collaboration feature and my classical collection. If an artist has a collaboration in addition to solo pieces, then the full name of the collaboration appears before the album title in the list under the artists name. The cd is correctly sorted by title, but the collaboration obscures the title. Here's what I mean. I have several Viktoria Mullova cds. Several are solos, such as 3 Bach Partitas, and others involve collaborators. Here is how they get listed using Browse By artists (no compilations)

Mullova, Viktoria
Bach: 3 Partitas (1994)
Bartok & Stravinsky: Violin Concertos (1997)
Brahms: Violin Concerto - Sonatas - Trio
Viktoria Mullova, Boston Symphony Orchestra & Seiji Ozawa :: Tchaikovsky, Sibelius: Violin Concertos
Twentieth-Century Violin Sonatas
Viktoria Mullova, Il Giardino Armonico & Giovanni Antonini :: Vivaldi: 5 Violin Concertos

It should display:

Mullova, Viktoria
Bach: 3 Partitas (1994)
Bartok & Stravinsky: Violin Concertos (1997)
Brahms: Violin Concerto - Sonatas - Trio
Tchaikovsky, Sibelius: Violin Concertos :: Viktoria Mullova, Boston Symphony Orchestra & Seiji Ozawa
Twentieth-Century Violin Sonatas
Vivaldi: 5 Violin Concertos :: Viktoria Mullova, Il Giardino Armonico & Giovanni Antonini

Or at least I should have the option of it displaying this way.

[andrei_c]

I have found another display issue as I work with the very useful collaboration feature and my classical collection. If an artist has a collaboration in addition to solo pieces, then the full name of the collaboration appears before the album title in the list under the artists name.

This was done on purpose so you could see that the specific album is released as "John Lennon & Yoko Ono" and not just "John Lennon".

You can disable this behavior. Right-click tree view and select Customize View. Switch to Options tab. You will see this format string in first box:


{%b :: }%T{ (%Y)}

Remove the first part in curly braces and press OK. Your new format string should look like this:


%T{ (%Y)}

(Technical explanation: %b expands to full artist name if it's collaboration album, or expands to empty string if it's simple artist album. If you remove %b, artist will never show up.)

[Jazz_North]

Andrei

Thanks for the explanation. I just moved %b to the end of the string. The fact it's a collaboration is still there, but the album names are more prominent. That leads to a follow up question. Is it possible to change the sort order under artist? Say I wanted the cds sorted by year rather than by title.

[Joebugs]

Multiple artists ("collaborations") feature is almost ready. At first, it will be available for albums only. Later, I plan to include support for multiple artists per track.

Any brave souls out there are welcome to try the new feature in this special build.

http://www.firetongue.com/support/orgcdfull_13331.exe

You can define multiple artists per album by clicking right arrow button next to artist box and selecting "Collaboration". It's next to Various Artists function.

Make sure to backup your database before installing this build in case something unexpected happens.

Andrei

Hi Andrei,

I just installed Version 6.3.2 (13701).

It appears that Multiple artists per track has as yet to be implemented. Will we see this soon??

Also at present when I go in Tracks view, tracks by "Collaboration" Artists are not shown.

Will this be solved when Multiple artists per track is implemented.

Any news re problem I mentioned in the forums some time ago regarding Collaboration Artists in Box Sets.

Regards,

Joe

[andrei_c]

It appears that Multiple artists per track has as yet to be implemented. Will we see this soon??

Also at present when I go in Tracks view, tracks by "Collaboration" Artists are not shown.

Will this be solved when Multiple artists per track is implemented.
I plan to implement it soon (not in next update though). There are some important usage scenarios - e.g. DJ compilations - that will really benefit from this feature.

Thanks for reminding about Tracks view - it's a tricky feature that will probably need a lot of attention.